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Qustion about MGA and Social Responsibility

3 år siden af Deorko
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3 år siden

Hello. 

I would like to ask u. 1stly i want to say ive never been gambler since i had a depression due to family tragedy. I made account on Casino "nonamed". In 1st 5 days ive deposited over 13k dollars. I think its the 1st indication to make kyc procedure. Nothing happend. It ended up when i was on 40k deposits during 2 weeks without any interaction. Had cancelled withdrawals (another indicator) Then i got lucky and wanted to withdrawal atleast 17k dollars. During this VIP flag was added to my account WITHOUT ANY VERIFICATION. Then it happend, I was informed I need to do verify myself then I can withdrawal. I send all needed documents, this process needed a lot of tries, during this time I canceled withdrawals again but came back with another withdrawal. After staff asked me what is my opinion on the casino, ive told him my story and that i am gambling only because of depression. This nigh I cancelled again my withdrawals and lost all. Kindly asked if there is willing step to give me atleast money back I had after I told my story about my problem. They said no. Then i tried to put my case on pogg.com where they had long conversation with them and after 4 months of interaction with casino and MGA they decided that after one conversation I have right to have my money back, since I was showing high indicators of problem with gambling. Casino didnt follow they decision which by poggs words is lawly binding and I have to contact MGA. MGA has this on table for 3 months. 

This casino has UKGC and MGA, but since I am not from UK i had to chose MGA. By articles by UKGC a lot of casinos got so high penalties rightly for this and players had refunded. Do u think that MGA has the same look on that sotuation? 

No KYC, no AML, no warning or asking me if i am ok, nothing. It started when i wanted to withdrawal and my withdrawal was up for 12 hours. Previous ones where my withdrawals holds for few hours and then cancelled didnt require anything. 

I am just confused, because on docume ts of MGA states that ADR decisionn should be binding for both parties(operator and player) and operator would not refer player to take this to MGA. 

Thry declined to follow decision of thePogg as it states in their message, but after my case ive found cases where this operator was particulated with ThePogg. 

 

When the ADR result should be binding, can MGA decide tocdont follow their decision and dont give me my money back? 


Thanks and sorry for my english. 


I think this casino really hard breached their social responsibility.

Here is mesaage ThePogg posted on my complaint, even after that Blacklisted this Casino od their site. 

 

We have had a very long conversation with Casino *** regarding this issue.

Having reviewed this case in detail it is the opinion of this service that there was sufficient indications given in your interactions with this operator that the operator should have excluded you on Responsible Gambling grounds.

Before making a ruling we consulted with the Malta Gaming Authority regarding the basic grounds for the ruling and the regulator indicated that they grounds for the ruling sufficient to support the ruling based on what we had shown them.

Having informed Casino *** of this ruling they have explicitly stated that they will not comply with the ruling given and have insisted that the case be escalated to the MGA for review.

It is our understanding that the ADR system in place under the MGA license does not offer any facility for operators to demand such escalation of complaints to the regulator by either player or operator.

The grounds upon which the operator has refused to respect our ruling is the claim that as they have not yet got round to updating their terms and conditions document to include a complaint policy that is compliant with the MGA license they hold. As far as we can see this is unsupported by the ADR Service Agreement they have signed, which explicitly states that the "Effective Date" for the agreement was the 4th of September 2019 and makes no exclusion for the operator having to update their terms prior to coming into effect. As such we view this defence as illegitimate and - in line with our ADR Service Agreement with the operator - consider our ruling to be legally binding.

This case is found in favour of the Player and it is the opinion of this service that the Player is entitled to a refund of losses after the point where Casino ***'s agents should have acted to close their account.

Given that Casino *** have stated their intention not to comply with this ruling we would recommend that you contact the MGA regarding this issue. We will likewise be passing further information on to the regulator about this case.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

3 år siden

Hej Deorko.

I dette tilfælde er der flere problemer. (Tilfældigt behandlede vi for nylig den sorte liste, som Pogg gav til dette casino, så vi har et godt overblik)

I øjeblikket er "ansvarligt spil" et stort emne, og forskellige licensmyndigheder har forskellige procedurer.

For eksempel har UKGC og den svenske licensmyndighed meget strenge regler, og i dit tilfælde ville de helt sikkert beslutte til din fordel. MGA har ikke så strenge regler, og derfor er vi ikke sikre på, hvordan vi skal beslutte (men ud fra det, du siger, tror jeg, de er enige med dig). Og så har vi licensmyndigheder som Curacao, Costa Rica, Filippinerne, hvor medmindre du eksplicit skriver, at du har problemer med hasardspil, bogstaveligt talt får du sandsynligvis ikke retfærdighed. (Der er også ærescuracaucasinoer med sikkerhed.)

Tilbage til din sag:

Problemet her er, at kasinoet ikke er enig i, hvordan Pogg besluttede. (ja, beslutningen burde have været bindende, og ja, undskyldningen for, at de først skal justere den på siden, er også meget svag) under alle omstændigheder mener vi, at kasinoet eller spilleren, hvis han er i tvivl om ADR-beslutningen, har ret til at bede den licensudstedende myndighed om at gennemgå sagen.

I dit tilfælde ville det være godt for dig at kontakte MGA og direkte spørge om din sag og om, hvorfor beslutningen tager så lang tid. Især når Pogg allerede har konsulteret hele sagen med MGA, fordi tre måneder at beslutte er virkelig meget længe for MGA.


Automatisk oversættelse:
3 år siden

I was calling them 3 weeks ago.

In that moment they told me "last week we requested documents from operator".

When I called then 3 days ago, they said me, that complaint tram is busy and they will callcme this day, nothing happend so I called again this days and be promised they will contact me next days. And nothing, I am just confused how they sitting on my case like they really dont want tocrefund me trying to find ways with Casino how to do this.

3 år siden

I understand that it is hard to wait so long. But I am afraid that you need to wait a bit longer. If you already waited for three months, then a few days more doesn't make much difference. I hope that they will decide in your favour. Otherwise, I start to doubt about MGA ruling.

3 år siden

Its nore than 3 months. From October 2019 to February 2020 The Pogg. Since 20th February to.now MGA.

Deorko
3 år siden

I am very sorry, but there is no other advice in this situation than to wait a bit more. This decision is the final one, so no more waiting, no other institution or licensing authority. After this decision, it should end. So stay strong and wait a little longer.

3 år siden

I am waiting... I am just scared, that they will decide to dont refund me.

3 år siden

A month ago, when I was calling them a get answer that last week they requested some documents from operator, and it would be solved in 1 week, after a month, during period 3 days all agents were busy or already ouf of office

3 år siden

Today I was calling MGA and they told me that their team is conpleting all documents and decision should be next week

3 år siden

I think its time to name that Casino. Its Casino Joy under Genesis Global Ltd.

Since I was looking, how MGA deals with refunding players, I fohnd this.

https://www.casinobeats.com/2020/07/20/gambling-commission-hands-interim-licence-suspension-to-genesis-global/


It kinda brings a shine in my case.

3 år siden

I think that before you start playing and betting you should contact them or find out so that it does not happen again

paulish
3 år siden

I am done by gambling honestly.


Deorko
3 år siden

I said that 67times so far.

3 år siden

I am so flustrated...

Its already 2 weeks they got all documents from operator and still nothing, I was calling them and only thing they told me their team is working on it. When I asked atleast for some timescale, has been told, they cant give any timescale.


I wanted to tell them they are sitting on my case like a dog on his bone.

Deorko
3 år siden

Congratulations! Mate

3 år siden

So ive recieved finally the decision and I am shocked.

1)never recieved email about verify my account

2)ive showed multiple sognals of problem gambling, like ammount of depositing, frequency, and played down cancelled withdrawals.

3) anyways is normal to let someone to deposit over 35k dollars without any verification?

4) they didnt absolutely put THEPOGGs decision supported by them in this case, which actually was my only case.

5)honestly, is email where ive told them "ive never been gambler, I started to play due to depression of my grandpa death, ive lost my financial plan to the future and I am glad to have atleast something back and its my worst month of the month" took like something to be stopped from gambling? I think so.


So, here it is.


Dear Mr. XxX,

 

Please accept our sincere apologies for the time it has taken us to revert with a reply concerning your complaint. Further to the below case, please be informed that we have received information from the representative of Genesis Global Limited who have informed the MGA that you have registered your account on 27/04/2019. You have deposited and started to play on 29/04/2019. When your deposit reached 34,250CZH (equivalent to EUR1258.58) they have requested your KYC documents.


As you did not upload your documents they have sent you several reminders on 01/05/2019, 03/05/2019, 05/05/2019 and 23/05/2019. You uploaded your first documents on 17/05/2059 and when they received all the documents they have verified your account on 24/05/2019. They have also sent you responsible gaming material reminding you on their responsible gaming tools.

When on the 26/05/2019 received an email from you in which you showed that you had some problems they have decided to self-exclude your account.

We assure you that as a regulator, we strive to ensure that our licensees adhere to the strictest levels of player protection but we do understand that there are times where gambling ceases to be a form of entertainment for some. Regrettably, no central database facilitating exclusion from all MGA-licensed operators exists and in all honesty even if such a database did in fact exist, it will only protect problem gamblers from accessing MGA-licensed online casinos; accessibility to online casinos licensed under other jurisdictions is still possible, rendering such an approach highly ineffective.

Whilst we are unable to assist you in retrieving money you have wagered, we would like to provide you with an effective means of protecting yourself through the use of blocking software which will completely removes access to any gambling-related websites. If you are determined to remove the temptation altogether, we can make this software available to you free of charge. Naturally, we also recommend approaching professionals who are able to assist you further with your challenges.

If you would like further instructions relating to the free blocking software please let us know and we will send you the necessary information.

 

Regards,



Deorko
3 år siden

Hej Doerko.

Jeg forventede heller ikke et sådant resultat, især ikke når Pogg konsulterede hele sagen med MGA. Desværre defineres intetsteds, hvordan tegn på afhængighed viser, og licensmyndigheder (nogle) kræver kun, at kasinoer ser efter tegn på afhængighed i deres opførsel. Selv hvis de var bekymrede for en spiller, ville de bestemt ikke lukke hans konto med det samme, men vil gerne have information og indkomst fra ham og verificere, at spilleren ikke er afhængig og ønsker at fortsætte med at spille. I dit tilfælde er du i konflikt med retten til fri vilje.

Til dine kommentarer:

Din bekræftelse blev afsluttet inden for en måned, og jeg kunne ikke se et problem med det. Det er muligt, at kasinoets opfordringer til verifikation endte med spam, og ifølge MGA forsøgte casinoet at bekræfte.

Jeg forstår, at for dig er det beløb, du har mistet en masse penge, men det er meget subjektivt. Dette er muligvis ikke tilfældet for spillere fra andre lande. Der er ingen regler for sådanne situationer. Blokering af en persons konto bare fordi de annullerer tilbagetrækningen x gange i træk eller indbetaler et højere beløb, er noget, jeg ikke forventer, at jeg nogensinde vil blive praktiseret.

I øjeblikket har Sveriges strengeste licensmyndighed to vigtige betingelser, der ikke er implementeret, nemlig verificering af indkomst, hvis spilleren ønsker at indsætte større beløb og panik-knappen, som når spilleren trykker på kontoen er blokeret. Stadig, hvis en spiller vil spille, stopper det ham ikke.

Casinoet svarede på din meddelelse om, at du straks havde problemer, og at din konto blev lukket. Jeg er bange for, at der ikke er meget at fange. Selvom Pogg har besluttet til din fordel, har MGA sidet med casinoet, og det er regulatorens beslutning.

I dette tilfælde er jeg bange for, at vi ikke har nogen måde at hjælpe dig på. Vi er meget ked af det.

Automatisk oversættelse:
3 år siden

This email after they blocked my account was wroten 26.5. Email where I was desribing my feelings (in comentary up there) ive written 24.5.

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