Different RTP Scores in Casinos

Hej @alle.

Jeg har et spørgsmål til dem, der er mere bekendt med den tekniske side af online gambling.

For noget tid siden bemærkede jeg, at RTP-værdierne for bestemte spil varierer i nogle casinoer.

I mit særlige tilfælde kunne jeg observere dette faktum i nogle spil fra Pragmatic Games.

For eksempel har Gates of Olympus, Gates of Hades og mange spil fra BIG Bass-serien en RTP på 94,7% på nogle sider. Det originale Pragmatic-spil giver dog en lidt højere RTP på 96,5% for disse spil.

Hvilket du også kan se her i demoversionerne af spillene på Casino-Guru.

Da dette selvfølgelig øger casinoets profitmargin enormt, og du "bløder ud meget hurtigere", har jeg stillet mig selv spørgsmålet hele tiden,

hvordan sådan noget teknisk set kan implementeres af et casino...

Indtil nu har jeg altid antaget, at når jeg spiller på et casino, etablerer casinoet mere eller mindre en direkte forbindelse til spiludbyderens server og fungerer i bund og grund som en grænseflade...

I dette tilfælde betyder det for mig, at casinoet selv ikke har nogen indflydelse på udbetalingen af spillene, og at det hele er, eller burde være, fair og sikkert for os som brugere...

Nu, netop af denne grund, har jeg grublet over dette emne i et stykke tid nu, og jeg spørger konstant mig selv,

a.) som i 3 djævlenavne, er det hele fuldført.

og

b.) hvem kan så garantere os, at maskinerne ikke er blevet/vil blive manipuleret i endnu større omfang...

Tilbydes denne funktion til de forskellige casinoer som en mulighed af API-operatøren, eller har casinoerne selv foden på bremsen?

Jeg husker fra dengang, hvor vores familie stadig havde vores egen "analoge" spilleautomat, at man manuelt kunne indstille i systemet, hvor ofte og i hvilken størrelsesorden maskinen skulle udbetale gevinster.

Kan det tekniske princip sammenlignes på nogen måde?

Hvad synes du om det?

Fra online poker ved jeg for eksempel, at de servere, der i sidste ende skulle kontrollere disse spil, havde de strengeste krav og retningslinjer for at forhindre uønsket adgang udefra for enhver pris, og i praksis burde det slet ikke være muligt.

Jeg tror, det er det samme med statslotteriet og lignende begivenheder, hvor selv udbyderen ikke har adgang til eller kan påvirke spillet på nogen måde...

Jeg vil være meget glad for at modtage svar på mine spørgsmål om dette emne, og jeg er allerede nysgerrig efter at høre jeres meninger.

Hilsen og masser af scatters til alle. xD

Thanks a lot for your thoughtful post! it's really great to see a player not only noticing the RTP difference but also thinking critically about how it works behind the scenes. You're absolutely right: many modern game providers, including Pragmatic Play, offer multiple RTP versions of the same game (e.g., 96.5%, 95%, 94.7%, etc.), and the casino chooses which one to activate during integration. Sadly, the lower versions are quite common.

From the technical side, especially in the case of licensed casinos, the casino doesn't run the games themselves. Instead, they act more like a marketplace – they integrate the games via API, and the actual game logic (including the RNG and payout distribution) runs on the provider's servers or on a platform controlled by the provider. This means the casino itself doesn’t influence the outcome – they simply stream the game to the player.

That’s also why, if there’s a technical issue with a game, the casino usually has to get in touch with the provider. They often don’t even have access to the raw game data.

Of course, as you mentioned, there are shady unlicensed casinos out there that might use fake or modified games (often with strange visuals or other red flags). But that’s a different story, and these games don’t come from real providers at all.

One thing to note: the analogy with old-school analog slot machines is understandable, but online games don’t work that way. The RTP setting defines the long-term average return, but it doesn't control how often or when the wins happen. There's no manual "win scheduling" like in old hardware.

Your comparison with online poker is interesting too. That’s a different system entirely, with real-time dealing and strict anti-cheating protections. Slot games are much more closed systems, and assuming they come from a reputable provider and are played at a licensed casino, they’re usually safe.

Bottom line: yes, the RTP can vary, and sadly casinos aren't always transparent about it. But spotting that and thinking critically about how games are run is a huge step in the right direction. Always a good idea to check demo versions (like on Casino Guru) to compare with the live version. If something feels off, it might be worth digging deeper.

And hey, wishing you big wins—or at least lots of satisfying scatter teases 😄

Hello Radka,

this is the Art of Conversation that i wish about my questions.

it seems that you are deeper in the knowledge involved and your answers helps me really l aot to understand the secrets behind Online Casino Gamlings (even if I may ignore this during the game and fall into an automatic gamble mode, which may be anything but strategically clever)

You, as someone who obviously knows their stuff. Do you happen to have any good casino recommendations for me? I was able to make a huge profit at Chipstars over the weekend alone

- But they've been holding me back with payouts for over a week,

so I've now resigned myself to leaving this site in the near future... Despite my prospect of the many bonuses still waiting to be earned and redeemed by me...

To be honest, these bonuses were partly my motivation to make deposits on the site in the first place and to get more involved with the casino gambling industry. But now I'm pretty sure that they only see me as a high-paying customer and are strategically using their payout policies against me (basically the classic online casino gambler with dreams).

I don't want to accuse the site of fraud, but certainly of questionable behavior in terms of moral aspects. They know that I'm mentally vulnerable to high risks, yet they deny me the safety net I desperately need by choosing my specific withdrawals. In the last two days alone, I was able to increase my winnings from an original €1,400 to just under €5,000.

Afterward, I was willing to take increased risks, lost most of them, and then yesterday, fortunately, I was able to make my biggest online casino win in a single session to date. (Gates of Hades, 3000x at a €1.40 stake)

For a short time, my bankroll was over €9,000. €2,800 of that is frozen in a current withdrawal process, and I'm using the remaining €6,000 to continue playing, even though I would have preferred to cancel the withdrawal amount again and increase it to €7,000-8,000... I'm now back at €3,100.

So, in less than two days, I've lost more than €3000, and since then, to be honest,

I've just been in the mood to cry...

I'm sure I'm in danger of falling into a typical addiction pattern at this point.

And this is primarily due to the fact that Chipstars strategically drags out its customers' withdrawals to such an extent that they cancel their withdrawal requests themselves during this long period of time in order to stay in the game after the loss...

If I had the option right now to freely choose between a full withdrawal or the waiting process for my current request, I would cancel it immediately and withdraw everything I currently

have on this casino site in one go, then I would choose that option... To put it briefly.

They are not scammers; I was the one stupid enough to fall for this scam. Nevertheless, from a moral point of view, it is more than reprehensible to exploit a player's mental weaknesses for profit-oriented reasons, selfishly out of pure greed, and in doing so, knowingly risk the health of their customers.... So please forgive me for my abusive manner.

Hello again,

Thank you so much for your incredibly honest post!

Please don’t feel the need to apologize. Not here, and not for expressing real emotions around a situation that clearly matters to you. I think many of us can relate to what it feels like when the emotional side takes over, especially in a context like online gambling, where things can shift so quickly between excitement and despair.

What you described isn’t just about one casino. Sadly, these tactics, like delayed withdrawals, tempting bonuses, and nudging players into reversing payouts, are all too common across the industry, especially when the casino is not held to strict standards. It’s not always illegal, but yes, it is morally questionable. And it’s brave of you to call it out like this.

You’re absolutely right to want something better. Everyone deserves a gaming environment where safety nets exist, not where they’re quietly removed just when they’re most needed.

If you're looking for alternatives, I can’t provide personal recommendations, but I suggest using tools like Casino Guru reviews (or any other trustworthy site focused on casino reviews). The more you browse, the better, I'd say. User reviews as well as the casino reviews allow you to filter for fair withdrawal terms, verified licenses, and player-friendly policies. Please include a complaint section to identify the most frequently reported player issues. It won't guarantee a perfect experience, but it helps reduce the risk of getting caught in exactly this kind of trap.

And most importantly, the fact that you're recognizing the pattern, even while it's still playing out, shows real strength. Addiction isn’t about lacking willpower. It’s about the system being designed to exploit the exact things that make us human.

If you ever feel like talking more about it or even want to hear about tools that could help you regain a sense of control, I’m here. No judgment, just open conversation. 🙌

Thanks again for trusting me with this.

Thank you so much for this information, I did not know.

Would you say that even a lower RTP is still better than the so called "original" games used by the crypto casinos?

Let us say Pragmatic, at least we know Pragmatic has every single game approved by a government department somewhere, whereas the classic games are not approved by anyone, the casinos use that ridiculous "provably fair" moniker, which is so insane, Pragmatic uses mathematicians to make their games and then somehow Stake manages to make people with no expertise to believe their unregulated games are "fair".

If Pragmatic can set variable RTPs, i dread to imagine what Stake is doing with their games.

Hello, glad you engaged. I think I know where this concern is coming from.

Just a thing I would like to clarify: The crypto games I mentioned referred to those "decentralized" "provably self-fair algorithms" or anything else you can come up with offered in purely crypto "casinos" invoking the feeling of completely anonymous and unlicensed, therefore insanely cool sites. In most cases, these games are more or less scams, but it is not just the games that may be designed to let you win easily. There are other schemes. I just find it very bold since we all know how the RNG works in normally crafted and licensed slots.

Well, back to the standard games: That's actually a really good question, and one I’ve been thinking about too! When a casino creates and manages its own games, I believe there is a degree of uncertainty regarding "oversight." Officially, it's the licensing authority’s job to make sure everything’s fair, including the RNG. But realistically, many of these authorities don’t have the technical capacity to truly verify how the RNG is implemented, especially when it’s all done in-house by the operator.

So, what I guess usually happens is that everything ends up depending on certificates. But even those may only prove that the RNG engine can work fairly under lab conditions, not that the actual games on the live site always use it in the same way. And when the casino acts as both operator and game provider, there’s no external control in practice, unless they voluntarily submit the games to a reputable independent auditor, which isn’t always the case, I guess.

Well, I don’t think it’s something we can prove, but I wouldn’t personally treat "we have an RNG certificate" as a strong guarantee of fairness when it comes to proprietary games operated directly by the casino.

So, who oversees this at such a casino with an Anjouan license, for example? I do not dare to answer...

Call me a skeptic...

Hi, I saw your post and it caught my attention when you mentioned Pragmatic games, because I’ve been documenting something very similar for a while now.

I’ve also noticed that in certain casinos, the RTP displayed (when they even show it) is lower than the one shown in the demo versions or on Pragmatic’s official site. And the worst part is that players are rarely informed they’re playing a downgraded version , even though that directly impacts their chances.

I’ve been looking into this deeply because I’ve experienced very suspicious sessions, especially on high-volatility slots like Big Bass or Fat Santa (from another provider). In some cases, I’ve even received replies from the provider and gambling authorities , but none of them has taken the time to actually analyze the real evidence I submitted, like videos or specific patterns. They just give generic statements about fairness or "technical compliance."

If you’re interested in continuing to exchange info about this, I’ll definitely be following. I believe many players are noticing things, but very few speak out in detail like you did here.

You’re absolutely right to be skeptical of "provably fair" ,it’s often used as a buzzword in unregulated environments to make players feel safe, when in reality there’s no meaningful oversight. That said, I think both cases (variable RTPs in regulated slots and homemade crypto games) deserve concern.

Even Pragmatic, despite being regulated, has proven how little protection a "government-approved" game can offer in practice. I personally submitted detailed evidence (including videos) showing algorithmic patterns and unnatural sequences in one of their roulette games. And their response? A vague email saying "all our roulettes work this way," without any technical breakdown or investigation. Regulators like the MGA and even the Swiss ESBK didn’t address the actual gameplay anomalies either , just bureaucracy and deflection.

So yes, I’d say variable RTPs are just the beginning. If even games that are "approved" by labs and authorities can act questionably, and no one investigates them seriously, imagine what goes on with completely unregulated ones. The entire ecosystem needs more transparency, whether it’s Pragmatic, Stake, or any other provider.

Well, you didn’t ask me, but I’ll answer anyway.

You asked Radka for a good casino to play at, let me tell you, there’s no such thing as a "good" casino. But if you’re going to pick one, go for one that has a UKGC license. Every other license protects operators or providers , not players.

I saw you mentioned that after a big win, you started losing and ended up with half your balance gone. That’s actually very common. Casinos often mark you as a "recent winner," and from that moment on, you’re not profitable for them , so they push you into a loss cycle, trying to drain more than you originally won.

I know you don’t know me and maybe you won’t believe what I’m saying, but I invite you to check out my thread about Pragmatic Play. If that’s how they run their roulette games, just imagine what goes on with their slots and everything else.

Thanks and take care.👌🏻

I think it is fair to stay objective. This entire conversation revolves around impartiality and openness. Hence, Saying all casinos are not trustworthy, at least to me, sounds pretty much the same like when someone says that all casinos are the same,... They are obviously not. 🙂

Hence I have to be quite hesitant about this.

"I saw you mentioned that after a big win, you started losing and ended up with half your balance gone. That’s actually very common. Casinos often mark you as a "recent winner," and from that moment on, you’re not profitable for them , so they push you into a loss cycle, trying to drain more than you originally won."

I understand that this feeling is very common. That's for sure .🙁

It is always many players who do not actually understand how casino games work; still, if they feel like they are losing too often, they are very eager to proclaim that the casino is a scam. I believe we all understand this is quite an easy thing to say as the first response associated with simple frustrations. These days many people feel that a casino is good when they are winning and becomes bad when they start losing, finding any coincidence they can to support this view—like, e.g., it is obvious because I hit a big win recently. Guys, a coincidence is not proof. It is just a human mind looking for an explanation for frustration to avoid the fact that the gambling is not that pleasing anymore because of loss. It is instead a sign of a rising issue, if you ask me.

Thank you both.

Hej batistahector490,

Jeg er meget glad for, at mit indlæg fangede din opmærksomhed og nu har ført til nogle ret interessante samtaler. Sagen med mig er, at jeg ikke ville beskrive mig selv som en erfaren spiller, og nogle af mine observationer er sandsynligvis selektive opfattelser. Samlet set, så vidt jeg ved, finder jeg det ret svært at komme med udsagn, der taler for eller imod disse procenter.

I poker blev dette altid omtalt som en nødvendig stikprøvestørrelse.

Jeg aner ikke, hvor høj den burde eller skulle være, for at spilleautomater i sidste ende kan have virkelig meningsfulde værdier... Jeg tror, at med mindre end 10.000-100.000 spins, kan alle disse mønstre, som du kan se, betragtes som et produkt af tilfældighed, ikke?

Men for at være ærlig, synes jeg, at dette emne er ret fascinerende.

Jeg har altid elsket at udforske matematikken bag de simpleste strategiske spil.

Jeg glæder mig derfor allerede til at høre mere om dette fra dit perspektiv.

For hvis man ser nærmere på det, ville jeg stadig betragte mig selv som en absolut nybegynder på dette område.

Med venlig hilsen

Wow, dette indlæg fra dig varmer virkelig mit hjerte..

Mange tak for dine venlige ord, og jeg er glad for, at det indtryk, jeg har fået i mellemtiden, er blevet bekræftet af andre spillere som dig.

For at være ærlig, må jeg indrømme over for mig selv, at jeg også var ret naiv og naiv i håndteringen af visse situationer... Så en ikke ubetydelig del af skylden for dette ligger hos mig.

Men det er præcis her, mine tanker starter igen.

Eksempel:

• Jeg går til et live casino (ikke en almindelig spillehal) og sætter mig ved en spilleautomat og spiller. Uanset om jeg vinder eller taber, hvordan skulle den næste maskine vide, hvordan min forrige session gik? Og så, efter en stor gevinst, lade mig tabe snesevis af spil i træk? Selve maskinen har ingen relevante data til dette.
• I online casinoer bliver dette indtryk dog hurtigt tydeligt og bekræftes nogle gange endda direkte, så længe du ikke afviger fra din tidligere strategi og blot fortsætter med at spille på samme måde.

Jeg læste et sted, at der er en lov i Tyskland, der skal beskytte (forebygge) spillere mod ludomani, som kræver, at casinoer indfører en grænse for spilletiden pr. enhed (jeg tror, det var maksimalt 5 timer).

Og jeg kunne sværge på, at jeg nu selv har oplevet præcis dette resultat flere gange.

• I spillet Jammin Jar2 f.eks.

På et bestemt tidspunkt stopper maskinen pludselig med at oprette klyngeforbindelser...

• Også her opstår spørgsmålet automatisk, hvordan denne spillerbeskyttelseslov, som ikke engang findes i alle andre lande, videregives af casinoet til den respektive spillerudbyder og indarbejdes i resultaterne.

Mange spillere forstår ikke rigtig, hvordan casinospil fungerer. Men hvis de føler, at de taber for ofte, er de hurtige til at påstå, at casinoet snyder. Jeg tror, vi alle forstår, at det er en useriøs udtalelse og en første reaktion på simpel frustration. I disse dage tror mange, at et casino er godt, når de vinder, og dårligt, når de taber. De leder efter enhver mulig tilfældighed for at understøtte denne opfattelse - for eksempel: "Det er indlysende, fordi jeg for nylig vandt stort." Folkens, tilfældighed er ikke bevis. Det er bare det menneskelige sind, der søger en forklaring på frustration for at undertrykke det faktum, at gambling ikke er så sjovt længere på grund af tab. Efter min mening er det mere et tegn på et voksende problem.

Det var præcis det, jeg mente, da jeg skrev, om at indrømme en stor del af denne skyldfølelse over for mig selv. Du burde have lidt selvrefleksion i denne henseende... Jo, det er altid pænere at give en anden skylden for sine fejl... Det har jeg også gjort til en vis grad i mine tidligere svar.

Men jeg har altid været stor tilhænger af at kritisere mig selv og bebrejde mig selv for bestemte fejl.

Af denne grund elsker jeg især sportsgrene som golf, dart og bordtennis.

Hvor det hele i høj grad afhænger af din egen hånd- og øjekoordination, og du spiller meget mere mod dig selv end mod din faktiske modstander.

Wow, this is genuinely refreshing to read. 🙌

Huge respect for this level of self-reflection! It's something we unfortunately don’t see often among players. If more people realized that constantly blaming the casino or shouting about how "unfair" everything is usually only deepens the frustration... we'd all be better off. I personally feel this way.

At the end of the day, the only things we can really control are ourselves, our decisions, our mindset, and our expectations.

Thanks for the reminder that gambling, much like golf, often shows us that when things go wrong, the issue might not be with the course but with our own swing...

Much appreciated!

Casinos can adjust RTP values slightly through agreements with game providers, increasing their house edge. This is often done via the casino's API connection to the game, but reputable casinos stick to regulatory guidelines to ensure fairness. For security, games are certified to prevent tampering.

If you're after a platform with good RTP and fair play, check out Weiss.bet!

Yes, it is possible with some providers as you say and casinos can choose the RTP, but they cannot change it arbitrarily as and when they want. This is something that players often confuse. 

The last sentence sounds more like an advertisement for the casino, but that could just be my impression. 

Do you play at Weiss Casino?

II’ve also noticed some big differences in RTP across casinos, especially with Pragmatic Play slots like Gates of Olympus or the Big Bass series. Some sites run them at 96.5%, others at 94.7% or even lower. Kinda feels misleading if you're not paying attention. I thought the games were streamed directly from the provider’s server too - turns out some casinos can choose which RTP version to offer? Anyone here know how this works technically and whether it’s legal everywhere?

Yes, I think it is Pragmatic that gives casinos the possibility to choose some RTP. Either lower or higher. I don't want to mislead, but I think I've dealt with some players in the past, I'm just not sure if it was this provider, although it probably was. 

Anyway, when the provider resp. casino wants slots from a given game provider and there is a possibility to choose RTP, the casino will choose. It works normally and everything is legit. The important thing is if they choose a lower RTP will it discourage the players and I think many of them will and I don't have any statistics on how many casinos choose lower and higher RTP but I think with Pragmatic slots it's more about keeping the higher RTP. It may be that in some cases and therefore casinos it is lower but it is not something that would be "illegal".

Of course, if there was a country where gambling is strictly regulated and for example they had a stipulation that slots must have a certain RTP, then if they offered a lower value it would probably be a problem. 

That's what I know.🙂