Scarabwins - ROGUE CASINO

Scarabwins Casino has tried to fob me off with very bizarre reasons for using the *descriptor DOTASCANNER, which is a commercial business!

Non-GAMSTOP casinos will hire third party payment processors who miscode payments to and from the operator, representing to the bank or card provider that the payment is for something other than gambling. This is effectively money laundering and the financial institutions work very hard to identify transactions of this nature and ban the initiating company.

*‘Descriptors are intended to help the cardholder identify the transactions shown on their bank statements for products or services purchased’.

If the cardholder doesn't easily understand the billing descriptor and recognise the transaction, a chargeback can be initiated.

I have just found this extremely useful snippet for anyone using Mastercard:

The Mastercard Business Risk Assessment and Mitigation (BRAM) Program and the Visa Integrity Risk Program (VIRP) — formerly the Global Brand Protection Program (GBPP) — are designed to protect card brands and consumers from illegal and/or brand-damaging activity. These programs impose fines on acquiring banks for any detected processing of fraud, illegal activity, or activity that may pose regulatory or reputational risk.

Examples of such damaging activity include the illegal sale of prescription drugs or counterfeit merchandise, illegal or miscoded gambling, and child exploitation or banned pornography. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but it illustrates the important role these programs play in keeping the payments ecosystem a safer place for consumers.

I'm wondering, what are you trying to reach here? What's the purpose of these posts? I'm confused.

I suppose that when let's say a UK player plays in a casino that isn't licensed in the UK, then the player requests a withdrawal, the casino hides the payment behind another type of a business than "an online casino payment". I suppose it's because they want to make sure the player's bank will accept the money and won't return them back to the casino.

I believe the easiest way of avoiding this is playing only in licensed casinos (licensed in your country of residence).

Sorry you are confused but yes I agree play licenced casinos in your own country is great advice but we both know this doesn’t happen because loopholes are discovered.

Basically, payment cards etc are protected by stringent legislation in the UK so a deposit made to a casino outside the UK would not process so third parties are hired to miscode payments that allows the transaction to sit below the detection zone, per say!

I am not referring to withdrawal of winnings but deposits!

Well said.

These casinos are illegally targeting UK Gamstop registered people. They are also using payment providers that are illegally miscoding Visa and MasterCard payments to get around UK banking blocks on genuine gambling transactions. The more people that contact Visa and MasterCard about this illegal practice the more chance that these casinos will lose the option to accept Visa and MasterCard payments. They will also be issued with hefty fines that will hopefully make other similar unscrupulous sites think twice about doing it.

You are probably wasting you time explaining this to Casino Guru as it will affect an income revenue for them, however it will be very useful information for the public, especially disordered gamblers and hopefully stop them being exploited.

Wow thank you - I was beginning to feel alone - I’m so pleased someone understands where I am coming from - I came here hoping for help, so far I have ‘personally’ managed to get 2 refunds amounting to £780 with the promise of another £50 from another. Once I have exhausted my efforts to claw back the deposits via direct contact I will be going for chargebacks via my bank!

Casinos and gaming operators need to play fair and be honest, it’s out of control. I will also be putting together a file to send to card companies and the GC (for what it’s worth)

Brilliant work.

One quick piece of advice. Don't waste too much time trying to get your deposits back directly from the casinos if they start to give you the run-around. Issuing chargebacks via your bank will not only get you your money back it will also mean a hefty fine for the casinos that operate these illegal practices.

Finally sending a file to the card companies is a good idea. Sending it to the GC, as I'm sure you are already aware is a complete waste of time. They do not want to know about casinos operating illegally in the UK. It would mean they would actually have to do some work!!

Thanks so much for the advice. Yes GC another waste of time - I have sent final emails to casino operators and the businesses they have directed my deposits to.

As soon as the refund currently being processed reaches my bank account I will be going down the chargebacks route for the rest and rather hope they are prepared for the hefty fines!

Thanks so much again for your help 🙏

No problem and good luck.

I hope the thread helps you to understand my posts now Daniel

I see. So what you're basically saying is that you willingly play in a casino that isn't licensed in the UK. You deposit your money into it. They enable this option for you by hiding the payment behind a 3rd party and once you lose, you claim the money back pointing out to the bank that you didn't actually buy services or products from the 3rd party?

If this is the case, it can certainly work for some time until you'll get on a list that will get you banned from most of the unlicensed casinos in the UK since no casino welcomes players who are known for performing chargebacks. I'm not sure, but it could potentially get you banned from certain casinos in the UK as well if they share the same database.

How would this effect our income negatively? If you register in a casino licensed in the UK through Casino Guru, then the income will be probably higher compared to registering in an unlicensed casino since the probability of having issues in an unlicensed casino is higher. It doesn't need to be a dishonest casino, but the withdrawals can fail, take longer etc.

So playing in a licensed casino gives you a higher chance of being satisfied, avoiding issues and whenever a player is satisfied, they're willing to play in the casino for a longer time. When they're not satisfied, they play elsewhere, which means no commission for affiliates.

Absolutely not the case - I was naive in thinking playing in non-GAMSTOP casino was legit. The knowledge I have gained is because of what appeared on my bank statement and trying to figure what the payments represented.

I’m not sure what you are trying to gain by suggesting I simply play casinos, lose and then claw my money back. That is certainly not helpful to others! Surely this is the place to come to read about fair and honest casinos, or have I missed something?

The thing is - what do you consider as being fair and unfair?

If you play in a casino and you lose simply because of the house edge, I consider it as fair. The casino provided you some sort of service, you used it, you had fun and lost the balance. In case you win, would it be fair from the casino to say: "Oh, we're sorry, but you're not supposed to play here. Your winnings are voided."

Absolutely not and unfortunately our Complaints team experienced such cases as well.

What you're suggesting here is playing no risk games. You register in a casino that pays out players no matter where they come from. You'll enjoy your winnings as far as you keep winning. Once you lose, you just claim all deposits back. In that case, you could only win, but you'd actually never lose your deposits. I guess you clearly understand that if casinos tolerated this, they'd be all shut down pretty soon.

We will park it there Daniel because you have completely missed the point!

I’m not averse to losing, I’ve done that often enough. I am averse to casinos dumping my deposits into a third party accounts. If that doesn’t raise questions for you then I am clearly in the wrong place!

You explain to me why a casino would do this legitimately and then I may begin to understand and by the way please don’t misinterpret me, I have not suggested playing no risk games, how on earth did you reach that conclusion?!

How? You wrote here that you made deposits in 2 casinos and then you used the descriptor in order to get the deposits back. You didn't mention that the casinos would charge your bank account without your permission (I've also seen cases like this before) or you didn't say the casino would be a scam using fake games or other practices to make sure you have no chance for winnings.

In such cases, I wouldn't blame anyone for trying to get the deposited money back since that's what you do when you're cheated or scammed. The cases you mentioned didn't show any sign of what I described here. If you won a huge amount or even a life changing jackpot in those casinos, would you also kindly return the winnings to the casinos since you're apparently not supposed to play there?

I am happy to be blacklisted the world over to be frank, especially given how money is being knowingly sent via a third party in order to keep under the radar. You don’t seem impartial because nothing I have stated raises your eyebrows, you only seem to defend the casinos. Operate legitimately and they are onto a winner because players would trust them. I have only recently looked into descriptors and third parties and realised something is not right!

Incidentally, I have had a very big win and been denied so I’ve also been there!

I did win a big amount that was declined - I am only just wising up to unscrupulous operators! Again you missed the point, in response to your interpretation of the following:

"You didn't mention that the casinos would charge your bank account without your permission"

On the contrary sometimes they do put deposits through without 3DS2 Authentication - that’s another thing I have had to learn about!

But your confusion about my deposits needs to be understood - when you deposit money for purchases you should be able to identify the payment on your bank account for said purchase - example I deposit money to a casino, let’s say PLAYMENOWdotCOM you would expect to see that reference or similar on your bank statement but when you look and the known transaction to the casino shows, for example TRESCOSTORESdotCOM surely that should raise a very big red flag!

It will effect your income negatively as less UK disordered gamblers who have taken steps to prevent them from gambling (with registered with GAMSTOP and blocking gambling transactions with their banks) will not be able to play at these casinos using illegal practices as they will have their Visa/Mastercard options withdrawn. This will mean that less losing players at these unscrupulous casinos will lessen your affiliate payments. Its quite easy to understand really.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. To sum it up for you, my main concern is the players' safety and fairness towards them. If a player decides to deposit and play in a casino (no matter where the casino comes from), I want to be sure that the player will get the winnings if they win it without breaking any reasonable terms and conditions and they'll receive the winnings without further and unnecessary delays.

Whether the casino hides payments etc. isn't my concern. They don't hide it before the player, since the player knows they played in a casino and made a deposit / withdrawal there. They hide it from banks since they probably know the casino and the player could have potential issues related to the nature of the payments.

If you don't want to experience this, then simply don't play in unlicensed casinos in the UK and you'll be fine.