Fresh Casino – generel debat

Hvis du vil diskutere noget i relation til Fresh Casino – det kan være spil, bonusser, betalingsmetoder, problemer med din konto, ansvarligt spil og alt muligt andet – kan du gøre det her.

Casino Guru gives Fresh-Casino a perfect reputation and rates the T&C as fair. I disagree. In my opinion, paragraph 8.6 of the T&C is not only unfair, but also probably violates the license agreement of the licensor.

8.6 You will not withhold or cancel previous transactions and deposits to your account. Otherwise, you undertake to return these funds and compensate the Company for the unplaced funds, including expenses incurred by the Company when collecting your deposits.

A player should always have the right to claim their money back should the casino make a mistake (eg violating the RG policy etc.). A casino should always have a control authority. Otherwise, Casino Guru can close immediately. Fresh Casino told me that even if the casino made a mistake and a third party (ADR / Licensing Authority) agrees with the player on something, they cannot claim back their deposited money under any circumstances. According to T&C, if the player gets his money back, he has to pay it back to the casino including fees.

I ask kindly for the opinion of Casino Guru.

Hello,

from my point of view, this rule should defend the casino in case the player requests a chargeback for instance. It strongly depends on how and when this rule is applied.

furthermore, this rule does not refer to any mistake made by the casino, as you suggested. Hence again the question of fairness depends on how the casino enforces this rule.

This is a fresh casino, so I believe that we've not witnessed this rule be applied so far, therefore we can't say it's been misused.

Allow me to say, the reply from the manager is very vague and general. She only confirmed that by registering you agree to all Terms and Conditions but she avoided commenting on the rule itself.

If you ever come across an actual problem caused by this term, we can examine the concrete situation closely and make a concrete conclusion.

Good day

Thank you for your message. I tried to explain my view and experience as precisely as possible, but apparently I didn't succeed. I apologize for that.

1. I believe that T&C should be transparent and self-explanatory. They should also not be given a different meaning depending on the individual case. This also with regard to the Codex of Casino Guru. Therefore, regardless of my case, I have objected to paragraph 8.6 as such.

2. Of course, a player cannot, for example, make deposits with his credit card, then gamble away that money and then withdraw the deposit. This is clear and rightly so.

3. Fresh-Casino has told me several times and also confirmed that this paragraph states that players have no right to claim back already deposited money by means of a complaint. Not even if the casino made mistakes or violated the license agreement or RG policy.

4, My case: I asked the casino to refund my deposits because I'm from Switzerland. While Swiss citizens are allowed to play in foreign casinos in Switzerland, it is illegal for foreign casinos to offer games. (You know the story I also know that Casino Guru cannot help me with this, as Casino Guru only intervenes when it comes to unpaid winnings.) That's not the problem. What bothers me is the reasoning of the casino. If the casino says it's my responsibility which sites I register and play money on, then I could live with that justification. But I was amazed by the reason I published in my first message. The player is not allowed to reclaim funds for whatever reason and has to give the deposits back to the casino if they are right in any case and get deposits refunded. Even if the casino has made obvious mistakes, for example? It is also questionable whether the casino should have this clause as a player can always complain to the ADR or licensing authority.

It can't be that I file a normal complaint and the casino tells me that I have no right to ask for any money back whatsoever. Every player should have the right not to be at the mercy of the casino. The casino scares and lies to the players by saying that according to 8.6 you can't file a complaint and ask for money back. The casino has said and confirmed this several times.

5. In any case, I will file a complaint against paragraph 8.6 with the licensing authority. If Casino Guru could give me his opinion on my case it would very help me. How many players wanted to file a complaint but didn't because Fresh Casino said it violated 8.6. Even if a player gets right, according to 8.6 he must pay back the money.

I ask Casino Guru to really study my screenshots carefully.

Kind regards

Dario Jablanovic

I file a complaint with the casino and they refer me to paragraph 8.6 in their article. In the context of my complaint, I have read or seen the following:

"Dario, this clause of the rules means that you undertake not to refuse previously made deposits, not to cancel operations for placing funds, not to protest the funds on which you have independently made bets. Otherwise, you undertake to compensate all costs of our side in the collection process for the return of your deposits"

"Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6. By registering on the website you confirm that you will not withhold or cancel previous transactions and deposits to your account. Otherwise, you undertake to return these funds and compensate the Company for the unplaced funds, including expenses incurred by the Company when collecting your deposits."

My question to Fresh-Casino was: "I have no right to claim back already deposited funds for any reason because of Article 8.6? If I get money back, then I have to refund it to you, including the deposit fees"

The answer of Fresh-Casino: "Dario, yes, that's right. By registering on our website, you agreed to all the terms and conditions that are presented on our website."

It is not a question of defending the casino and suspecting how paragraph 8.6 is meant. It is now mainly about how the casino explains to the players in relation to paragraphs 8.6 and specifically in which contexts applies against the player.

Casino Guru said: "furthermore, this rule does not refer to any mistake made by the casino, as you suggested". My question. How do you come to this conclusion / realization? Does Casino Guru always think that the casinos act honorably? This defensive attitude towards casinos is increasing more and more.

I am looking forward to the opinion of the Casino Guru.

I see, I have no chance of making a complaint against any casino at Antillephone N.V. enter, it will always be rejected.

I stand by my opinion:

The casino's response when I filed a T&C breach complaint was this: "Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6."

When I asked if I could never get my money back through a complaint, the casino said yes.

To me, this is a deliberate misrepresentation, and misstatement and application of 8.6. Highly unfair.

I understand the situation now - I hope. I read your complaint to be sure.

Well, I still think that this is not a problem of any unfair behavior.

You deliberately played - deposited in the casino knowing that this casino is not registered in Switzerland. You played and suddenly decided to ask for your deposit to be refunded because this casino is still not licensed in Switzerland, am I correct at this point?

But there is no reason to refund you because the casino didn't do anything wrong in my eyes.

I must agree with Nick: " It all depends on the request of the player and if it's reasonable. Unfortunately, at your case you are not eligible for a refund..."

Kære Radka

Tak fordi du læste min klage igen.

Du sagde: Men der er ingen grund til at refundere dig, fordi casinoet ikke gjorde noget forkert i mine øjne.

Efter min mening er det en meget farlig udtalelse. Vi ved alle, at et kasino ikke bør tilbyde spil i områder, hvor gambling er forbudt. Kasinoet bør tilføje Schweiz til listen over forbudte lande, ligesom de har forbudt andre snesevis af lande af samme grunde. Fordi det er imod loven for udenlandske casinoer at tilbyde gambling. Du ved, at spørgsmålet om lovlighed ikke er endeligt afklaret, at der er tale om en juridisk gråzone, og at forskellige parter og domstole ser forskelligt på situationen. Schweiz er overbevist om, at kasinoer også bør tilføje Schweiz til listen over forbudte lande, fordi udbud af udenlandsk gambling i Schweiz har været forbudt ved folkeafstemning siden 1. januar 2019. Jeg vil bare sige, at din udtalelse om, at kasinoet ikke gjorde noget forkert, er meget velvilligt over for kasinoet og en domstol kan på et tidspunkt se det anderledes.

Og generelt overtrådte jeg ikke T&C i denne henseende. T&C (4.2) siger: Du accepterer, bekræfter og garanterer hermed, at din brug af webstedets tjenester ikke overtræder nogen af de gældende love, vedtægter og regler.

Lad mig bemærke noget her: Ifølge schweizisk lov er det forbudt for udenlandske kasinoer at tilbyde gambling i Schweiz og for schweiziske uden licens, men det er lovligt for schweiziske at spille på udenlandske kasinoer. Det betyder, at jeg som spiller ikke har overtrådt nogen love og T&C.

Mit spørgsmål i denne forbindelse: Hvor præcist i T&C er det skrevet, at jeg er ansvarlig for, om det er tilladt at tilbyde spil i mit land eller ej? Jeg gentager: brugen af hjemmesiden er absolut lovlig for schweiziske, men udbuddet af spil fra kasinoer er det ikke.

Jeg ved, at der er konsensus om den juridiske situation og ansvaret for spiltilbud i udlandet. Alligevel synes jeg, det er vigtigt at tage sig tålmodighed og tid til at læse casinoets respektive T&Cs ord for ord i denne henseende. T&C adskiller sig i denne henseende i mange kasinoer, og det kan ikke antages, at der er en generel regel/konsensus. Fresh Casinos T&C angiver kun, at jeg vil finde ud af, om jeg må spille på siden, og om min brug af siden er i strid med loven. Det er ingen steder i Fresh-Casino T&C, at jeg tillader eller accepterer, eller at det er mit ansvar, hvis casinoet selv bryder nogen love ved at tilbyde spil. (Under alle omstændigheder er det juridisk tvivlsomt, om en person kan flytte ansvaret til en anden person, hvis førstnævnte gør ulovlige handlinger. Er T&C tilladt, som siger, at jeg alene er ansvarlig for konsekvenserne, hvis en anden person røver en bank?)

Hvad jeg vil sige: Spørgsmålet om lovlighed er bestemt endnu ikke endeligt afklaret her, men det var som bekendt ikke mit problem .

Mit problem var: Jeg indgiver en klage, og kasinoet fortæller mig, at jeg ikke har ret til at indgive en klage. Uanset emnet og årsagen , fordi jeg har givet samtykke i henhold til Casino artikel 8.6. Kasinoet informerede mig:

Bemærk venligst, at proceduren for tvist om deponerede midler betragtes som et brud på webstedets vilkår og betingelser. Dette fremgår af afsnit 8.6 ."

Dette er en generel erklæring og regel, der ikke henviser til indholdet / årsagen / udløseren af klagen. Kasinoet angiver klart, at proceduren for tvist om indsatte midler betragtes som et brud på vilkårene. Kasinoet siger ikke specifikt, at det ikke er tilladt at indgive en klage over lovligheden af oprindelseslandet, men angiver klart, at enhver procedure for tvist om indskudte midler betragtes som et brud på sidens T&C.

Eller hvordan vurderer Casino Guru denne erklæring og anvendelse af afsnit 8.6 af kasinoet? Jeg kan ikke se nogen begrænsninger med hensyn til begrundelse for klager. Men jeg mener stadig, at den udtalelse er i strid med licensbetingelserne. En spiller bør altid have ret til procedure for tvist om indskudte midler. Om han så har ret er et andet spørgsmål. Men at fortælle spillere, at enhver ansøgning og enhver proces med at bestride indsatte midler er en overtrædelse af 8.6, er simpelthen ikke lovligt. Denne anvendelse af punkt 8.6 er simpelthen forkert.

Bemærk venligst, at proceduren for tvist om deponerede midler betragtes som et brud på webstedets vilkår og betingelser. Dette fremgår af afsnit 8.6."

Hvor angiver artikel 8.6 årsagerne til, at en klage kan og ikke må indgives? Efter min opfattelse står dette ikke i artikel 8.6. Jeg beder dig virkelig om at tjekke denne fortolkning og anvendelse af artikel 8.6 af kasinoet.

Tak skal du have.

Med venlig hilsen

Dario

I am writing again and hope that you will finally understand my request and take it seriously.

Please read the screenshots in the attachment carefully.

Jet-Casino is a sister casino of Fresh-Casino and both are licensed by Galaktika N.V. Both casinos have the same support and the exact same T&C. Word by word. I asked in Jet Casino livechat what article 8.6 means exactly. Jet Casino also confirmed to me that under no circumstances does a player have the right to lodge a complaint and request a refund. (Casino Guru told me that it always depends on the case and the situation).

Only: The woman in the live chat didn't know that I wanted to file a complaint and why.

I stand by my argument: The T&C of Galaktika N.V. are misleading and unfair. Every player should have the right to lodge a complaint with an independent body (ADR) or with the licensor. And the player must not be lied to in advance by the casino that this is not allowed under Article 8.6. This prevents players from filing complaints.

That Article 8.6 means that a player may not lodge a complaint under any circumstances was something I didn't realize when registering and reading the T&C. This is deliberate deception. Both casinos have independently told me that it is not possible for me to file a complaint for whatever reason because of 8.6.

As a result, I stand by my claims and request that my "contract" with Fresh Casino be voided due to improper use and information from T&C and reclaim my deposits in full including compensation. Otherwise, I will take further steps.

Many thanks for your response

Dear Dario,

I will get this short for both your posts at once because I do not intend to repeat myself more times than necessary.

What you still put together is legality and fairness.

Legality is a question for local authorities and court nevertheless "but it is legal for Swiss to play at foreign casinos" also means that even the casino did not violate any own terms especially if you chose to play there willingly - it was your own choice.

The casino did not make any mistake, if you are concerned, always chose a casino that is registered in Switzerland.

If you play and lose you are not entitled to any refund, that is normal. If you play and lose and then try to make chargeback because you lose and you want your money back that's not fair toward the casino.

Your situation is almost the same, don't you think?

I still believe and those screenshots confirm - in my eyes, that this rule is exactly for chargebacks made by players:

When a player asks the bank for chargeback, the casino has no chance to block this operation no matter the reason. So this rule serves as a defense.

I still agree with this "that Casino Guru told me that it always depends on the case and the situation"

Please solve the question of legality with local authorities, we serve as a mediator only.

Reply if you wish but I believe there is no point in doing so, I truly think we can't come up with anything fresh from now on.

Jeg er meget ked af at irritere dig med mine indlæg. Under alle omstændigheder ser det ud til, at man altid kun ser det gode i et casino og argumenterer for, at et casino altid handler ærligt, gennemsigtigt og velvilligt, når det kommer til T&C. Jeg ville blot advare spillerne her om, at paragraf 8.6 bliver anvendt på en ugennemsigtig og uklar og vag måde af kasinoet og for at påpege over for spillerne, at du altid har mulighed for at indgive en klage. Også selvom casinoet henviser til artikel 8.6 og siger, at du ikke kan indgive en klage over det uanset årsagen.

Artiklen har selvfølgelig til formål at sikre, at spilleren ikke hæver (via bank, kreditkort) fra allerede foretaget indbetalinger. Dette er for at beskytte kasinoet. Jeg forstår også, at Casino Guru mener, at artikel 8.6 kun gælder i denne henseende.

Jeg har dog spurgt to forskellige personer fra Galaktika NV, hvordan artikel 8.6 skal forstås. Da jeg spurgte dem, forsikrede de mig begge og bekræftede, at der i artikel 8.6 står, at der ikke må indgives klager. Jeg postede screenshots i går, hvor jeg spurgte direkte:

"så uanset hvorfor kan jeg ikke kræve en refusion tilbage og få det. Ved hjælp af en klage osv. Er det rigtigt?"

Kasinoets svar var: ""Ja, da indbetalinger kun er din beslutning og konsekvensen af din handling" (...) "Under alle omstændigheder er dette en overtrædelse af reglerne, Dario"

Jeg forstår ikke, hvorfor Radka kun citerer de skærmbilleder, der er til fordel for kasinoet og fuldstændig ignorerer andre udsagn.

Jeg modtog også et svar fra licensgiveren Antillephone: Licensgiveren er uenig med Casino Guru. Casino Guru siger, at artikel 8.6 kun er beregnet til at beskytte mod, at spillere foretager tilbageførsler. Licensgiveren siger dog, at artiklen tjener til at afvise og forhindre unødvendige klager, især når det kommer til ludomani og juridisk status.

Jeg står ved min mening: En spiller skal altid have ret til at indgive en klage og ikke blive henvist til artikel 8.6 og sige, at du ikke har ret til at indgive en klage. Det er også forkert at sige, at man generelt ikke må klage over visse forhold. Som Nick fra Casino Guru sagde, er hver sag specifik og individuel. Jeg kan selvfølgelig indgive en klage, for eksempel hvis et land er på hjemmesidens liste over forbudte lande, og jeg stadig var i stand til at spille. Jeg kan selvfølgelig indgive en klage over ludomani, for eksempel hvis jeg er blevet forsikret om, at jeg er udelukket fra hele casinogruppen, men stadig fik lov til at spille osv.

Et kasino må under ingen omstændigheder forhindre spillere i at indgive en klage. Det er lige meget af hvilken grund. Kasinoets brug af 8.6 er meget uretfærdigt. Vilkår og betingelser skal være klare og ikke give meget plads til fortolkning og være meningsfulde nok, selvom jeg har accepteret vilkårene og betingelserne med min registrering.

I går spurgte jeg søsterkasinoet om artikel 8.6. Hun fortalte mig, at jeg ikke måtte indgive en klage og bede om tilbagebetaling af mine indskud. Men hun vidste ikke, at jeg ville klage og hvorfor.

Det handler ikke om, hvordan Casino Guru fortolker artikel 8.6. Det ville være rart, hvis det kun gjaldt for uautoriserede tilbageførsler. Det hele handler om, hvordan artiklen bliver brugt af casinoet mod spillere, når de indgiver en klage. Det handler også om, hvordan artiklen bliver forklaret af casinoet til spillerne.

Kasinoet kan fratage spillere håbet om at indgive en klage på forhånd ved at henvise til artikel 8.6. De fleste spillere ved, at du altid kan indgive en klage, men ikke alle. Kasinoet må ikke sige, at T&C siger, at du ikke må indgive en klage og afskrække folk på forhånd. Dette er mit råd til dig.

Dear Dario,

I would not call this annoying, but I feel that all has been already said/written.

I empathize with your feelings and I'm happy that you put so much effort to do what you feel is correct.

We do the same.

Sadly, I can't see any point in constant debate on theoretical subjects and issues.

You submitted the complaint, that is something we can comment on. And we did already.

Furthermore,

If any player comes across this rule being used or better say misused in a practical term, only after that we can debate on what has truly happened and how the casino enforced this rule concretely, based on the submitted complaint containing arguments from both parties.

I hope you understand.

Hej. I Freshcasino er der også en tysk kundeservice via e-mail og i chat.

Hello and thank you for your update! I'm following the information to the proper team 👍

What about the quality of live chat or customer support, can you comment a bit? 🙂

Hej. Meget godt. Alle spørgsmål vil blive besvaret omgående. Jeg vandt 800 euro på min første indbetaling med en bonus i fredags, og pengene var på min konto i mandags. Supporten var altid meget venlig, selvom jeg spurgte 3x, om udbetalingen virkelig kom. Men alt fungerede fint. For mig det bedste casino i øjeblikket. Varme hilsner

For at være ærlig ved jeg ikke, hvordan kasinoet kunne klare sig så godt. 1. indbetaling var god, det gik ad helvede til

Hello,

what has happened?

Stroke of bad luck in the casino?

Hej,

uheldig mig ikke noget med det at gøre.

Hvis spillene fryser, eller internetforbindelsen er for langsom på trods af en 1000-linje, eller du bliver smidt ud af spillet uden grund.

For mig er det ren rip-off.

Gambling er gambling, men når du så åbenlyst bliver snydt, så har det intet med gambling at gøre

If you're connected let's say to your wi-fi using a computer, then the best way of testing it would be to connect with your phone through the mobile internet and test the same game.

Otherwise, it's hard to say whether the issue is on yours or their side.

Har spillet via mobiltelefon i WiFi samt via mobildata og via WiFi på pc'en, samme problem overalt